We continue with the second part of the interview with Yong Zhao that began on May 18.

(Archivoz) What do you think of the research evaluation reform in China? What is the influence to Chinese Universities and academics?

(Yong Zhao) The reform of scientific research evaluation closely relates to the construction of scientific research integrity system. It is the baton of scientific research development, allowing scientists to do their own work well and universities develop their education function and social service function.

In September 2020, general secretary of the CPC Central Committee Xi Jingping mentioned “Four Look Forward” (English) at the Scientists’ Form: “I hope numerous scientists and technology workers will take up this historical responsibility, determinedly look toward the frontiers of global S&T, look toward the main economic battlegrounds, look toward major national needs, look toward the people’s lives and health, and incessantly march forward in the breadth and depth of S&T”. These four aspects are most important. The value of your scientific research, regardless of basic knowledge or application field, actually depends on whether it can solve the problems related to these four aspects.

A big difference between China’s scientific research evaluation and that of the western countries is that it relates directly to the salary of scientific researchers. Chinese universities have staff performance assessment every year. If you fail to meet the standard, your performance salary will be deducted. Unlike the contract system, the annual performance assessment system is critical relevant to the interests of scientific researchers, and it is highly concerned.

(Archivoz) About the evaluation of scientific research, are there any differences between China and other countries?

(YZ) The differences of research evaluation system between China and other countries essentially depend on the national policy, research environment, cultural differences and the economic development. It is not easy to make a comparison. The United States also experienced academic misconduct and fraud, which urged its system construction and formed a good research environment. The withdrawal of Haruko Obokata’ paper in Nature and the suicide of her tutor are driven by Japan’s scientific research environment and culture. Scientific research evaluation is an important part of the construction of national innovation system, and is closely integrated with R&D (Research & Development) level, research investment and the S&T strategy. We should not ignore these factors when we compare China and other countries.

China’s scientific research system is government-led national system, which is quite different from the foreign countries. The R&D investments between China and other countries are also different. After all, China is still a developing country, and its annual investment in R&D is not as much as that of western developed countries. China need to put the money where it is needed most. Therefore, the assessment of scientific research evaluation will be very strict. However, I do not think the evaluation of scientific research in other countries is more lax than that of China. When I was a doctoral student at Wageningen University & Research in the Netherlands, I learned that the evaluation indicators of the tutors in this university include the time of guiding students, the amount of papers published by tutors and students, and so on. As a policy and tool, scientific research evaluation is used all over the world. We are wrong to assume that the countries outside China are relaxing and free, some countries are even stricter than China.

In a word, we should look at the differences from a more macro perspective. Simple comparison is meaningless. Moreover, the reform of China’s evaluation system is in line with international standards, which is a major trend. For example, the time of evaluation cycle of UK REF and Australia ERA is relatively long, and China is extending the cycle time too.

(Archivoz) How do you see the evaluation of scientific research going in the near future? What are the opportunities looking ahead for the evaluation of scientific research in China Higher Education?

(YZ) The future development of China’s scientific evaluation relates closely to the “Two Centenary Goals”. Scientific research evaluation is heteronomy, and the evaluation came from the government and the University. While self-discipline means that, researchers will devote themselves to work and do not need to be evaluated externally. The balance between them depends on the country’s strong material base and GDP level.

When we achieved “Two Centenary Goals”, I believe the scientific research evaluation at that time is totally different from today. With the enhancement of scientific research strength and scientific research self-confidence, the role of scientific research evaluation (as heteronomy) in the development of science will become less important, whereas the self-discipline of researchers will play an increasingly important role. The intensity and complexity of many evaluation methods will be reduced. Researchers engage in scientific research by their interest and nature, which would be the perfect state.

In the new stage of development, China is facing many opportunities and challenges. With the development of S&T, such as aerospace, COVID-19, large equipment, etc., China gradually has a stronger voice in the world. In particular, with the global outbreak of the pandemic, China quickly developed the vaccine, which represents our S&T strength. How to protect “the sparks of fire”? How to ensure the healthy growth of scientific research? It is necessary to punish the misconduct of scientific research to ensure the fairness and justice of scientific research, which is exactly the role of scientific research evaluation. As a result, the reform policies on scientific research evaluation and integrity issued by the Ministry of Science and Technology, the State Council and the General Office of the CPC Central Committee are all new measures in response to the new era to ensure the long-term sustainable development of scientific research.

Furthermore, there is a “Punctuated Equilibrium Theory” in the field of public policy, that is, the policy change will be in the stage of stagnation and gradual change for a long time, but there will be a large-scale mutation in the short term, and the monopoly will be broken due to the change of public attention. In short, major focus events can lead to policy changes. At present, there are many major events in China’s S&T community, including positive events (enhanced S&T strength) and negative events (academic misconduct). From the perspective of policy and system construction, these events are great opportunities for the reform of scientific research evaluation system.

(Archivoz) Do you have any other thoughts or suggestions?

(YZ)

1. From an international point of view, the top four rankings have done very well. From the domestic point of view, how to improve the national scientific research evaluation system? How to improve the evaluation system of each university and department further? This is a hierarchical issue. We cannot simply focus on the macro or middle level. I think more problems are at the micro level, so scientific evaluation system must be stratified. Currently China does not consider stratification in scientific research evaluation, but focuses more on classification, such as the classification between comprehensive university and professional university mentioned previously.
2. In this great era of change, China is playing a leading role in many fields and it is inevitable for China to expose some problems that other countries do not have. We cannot learn from the experience of other countries. Unlike US, its economists and sociologists promote the development of the whole society by studying economic system, social thoughts, etc. China’s current situation is problem oriented. A host of problems forces us to change, reform, formulate policies and find solutions. Government need to formulate sound policies, and academics need to explore new methods and theories.
3. Inter-discipline is an important form of scientific research and an important driving force of S&T innovation. How to evaluate inter-discipline? This is a very big challenge. In 2020, Ministry of Education of the PRC added the category “inter-discipline” to the list of national disciplines accessible for academic degrees. Inter-discipline became the 14th first class discipline. It is under construction and everyone is talking about what subjects it will cover. Since it has become a discipline, we have to evaluate it. However, how to evaluate it? This is definitely a great challenge. Many attempts have also been made in the field of Library and Information Science. In recent years, the National Social Science Fund of China has funded many related projects, most of which remain at the theoretical level and lack practical application.

Interview conducted by: Ke Wu

We are interviewing Professor Yong Zhao, the director of Information Research Center of China Agricultural University, a Research Librarian and doctoral supervisor at the CAU Library. He has a PhD degree in Management and he engaged in postdoctoral research in Information Science in Institute of Scientific and Technical Information of China (ISTIC), the research direction of which was “Evaluation of Scientific Research”. Moreover, he is the deputy director of Development and Planning Office in CAU, managing the subject evaluation reform, the talent evaluation reform, etc.

He mentioned that evaluation of scientific research is a very important area of Library and Information Science, which is not only the evaluation of scientific research, but also the evaluation of all aspects of science, including the evaluation of science & technology, the evaluation of people, the evaluation of institutions, etc. From theoretical research to practical application, he has been practicing the policies and documents from the government and the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China (CCCPC).

(Archivoz) What is the current situation of the evaluation system of scientific research in China Higher Education?

(Yong Zhao) In the current situation of higher education evaluation system in China, 2016-2017 is a very important period for China’s policy reform. Why? There are two big backgrounds.

2016 is an important year, when China issued a series of documents on talent evaluation reform, including one document ‘Opinions on Deepening the Reform of the System and Mechanism for Talent Development’. This document first proposed “Overcome the orientations of ‘Academic Credentials Only’, ‘Professional Titles Only’, ‘Papers Only’, etc., and paper is not regarded as the restrictive condition to evaluate the application-oriented talents”. These documents were against “SCI Supremacy”, and caused strong repercussions in Chinese academic community.

In 2017, Springer announced the retraction of 107 papers published in Tumor Biology. Most of these papers were from China. In fact, there were some retractions in 2016, which were not as many as 2017, and had not caused enough attention in the society at that time. Why did this happen? Because “SCI Supremacy” has distorted the whole direction of scientific research. Therefore, the reform of scientific research evaluation closely relates to the construction of scientific research integrity system. This is another important background in China.

Policies and documents of CPC Central Committee are instructive and have the legal effect. It is the universities’ responsibility to implement these polices. In October 2020, the CPC Central Committee and the State Council of PRC issued “The Master Plan to Deepen the Education Evaluation Reform in the New Era” (English), which is currently the most authoritative document. The master plan put forward the reform goals for China’s education field, including improving evaluation of higher institutions (universities and colleges). Inheriting the previous policies, it proposed that “effectively address deep-rooted problem ‘Five Only’ (Scores Only, Enrollments Only, Academic Credentials Only, Papers Only, Titles Only)”, “promote the classified evaluation of higher institutions, guide the scientific orientation of different types of universities, and establish their own characteristics and levels”, etc. This is current situation and strategic orientation.

The so-called “classified evaluation” is to adopt different evaluation system according to different disciplines and industries. The medical evaluation reform is the first and fastest in the whole process, due to the high frequency occurrence of retractions and academic misconducts in this field (especially oncology and tumor biology).

The reform of university evaluation system also relates directly to the welfare of researchers. For example, China Agricultural University, for the first time in history, did not conduct professional title evaluation by the end of 2020, but in March 2021. The reason was that the relevant documents continued to be put off (a delay of 3 month) due to heated discussion. First of all, the professional title evaluation should break with “Five Only”, including “Papers Only”, “Titles Only”, “Academic Credentials Only”, “Prizes Only”, and “Projects Only”. The title evaluation system constructed by CAU reflects the diversification, instead of focusing on one indicator. Paper is just one aspect, and not a prerequisite or a mandatory condition, which is a significant change. This change brings new challenges and problems to the researchers, and determines the focus of their future work. On February 26, CAU issued a document on the evaluation of professional titles, and everyone is talking about the details of it.

In conclusion, scientific research evaluation is a major event in China’s higher education, which relates to the personal benefit and vital interest of every scientific researcher. It is the responsibility of scientific research management to make the achievements of scientific researchers be fairly recognized.

(Archivoz) What are the main problems of the current evaluation system?

(YZ) One of the most important problems of the previous evaluation system is “Papers Only”, which is not the main problem anymore. What problems will we encounter after the reconstruction of the scientific research evaluation system?

1. One aspect is about global common issues.

The scientific research evaluation system is newly constructed and needs time to adapt. There definitely will be some problems, especially in some evaluation methods. For instance, the evaluation of social services. There are mature bibliometric indicators for the evaluation of general scientific research, such as papers, patents, funds, etc. However, how to measure the scientific research contribution of rural revitalization, social services, regional development, and national strategic support? This kind of evaluation and methodology about social dimension and measurement are challenging, not only in China, but also in the whole world. From the perspective of Library and Information Science, it is indeed an invisible global challenge to evaluate social contribution.

The university has three functions: education function, scientific research function and social service function. For a long time, people equate the function of scientific research with everything. This is partly cause by some university rankings, like the top four rankings: US News, THE, QS, and ARWU. Besides scientific research, the evaluation criteria of these ranking lists also take into account the teaching, but does not include any indicator about social service. There is no weight for social service indicator.

How to measure the social service function? This is a very important methodological issue. There is no quantitative indicators in the current evaluation system. In the mature scientific research evaluation frameworks such as UK REF and Australia ERA, social service evaluation relies on cases and expert evaluation. These qualitative evaluations lack quantitative evaluation methods, and are easily questioned by participants.

2. The other aspect is about our Chinese situation.

We often directly apply the international ranking system, like the top four rankings, and simply equate the international excellence of the universities with their contribution to our country, without considering the national conditions. This is logically problematic.

The indicators of the international ranking lists are relatively rough, because they need to ensure an international lateral comparison. Thus, these indicators are internationalized, unified and standardized, and cannot be refined, differentiated and personalized. Some localized indicators and regional unique indicators cannot be included in the international scientific research evaluation system. However, it is these personalized indicators that actually play a crucial role in measuring the contribution of the universities.

The reality is that the local evaluation system, although combined with national conditions, such as Golden Apple Ranking, is immature and not highly recognized by the society. Most university presidents still focus on the international rankings. Therefore, many Chinese universities adopt the international evaluation indicators to implement the “Double First-Class Plan (World-class Universities and First-class Disciplines)”, which is one of the main problems of the scientific research evaluation in China.

In the evaluation system, we also lack certain scientific methods and data.

To build localized scientific a research evaluation system in China, we need the guidance from authoritative institutions, as well as fair, just and open data sources. Here is an example. The Ministry of Education has a statistical yearbook, which published the annual data of transformation of scientific and technological achievements, projects, etc. of all Chinese universities. After 2017, the data dimension of the yearbook has been changed from “University” to “Region and Category”. Now we can only find the transformation of S&T achievements in one region or one category, instead of one university. The Ministry of Education should have the universities’ data, but it did not consider the application value of these data in scientific research evaluation. It published the data from their own perspective, which invisibly expanded the data dimension and had a certain impact on our statistical analysis.

In terms of method, there is no distinction between comprehensive university and professional university in scientific research evaluation. People realize that this is a problem but have not found a solution yet. You cannot compare Peking University (comprehensive university) with China Agricultural University (professional university), which is unreasonable. The two universities have different goals and different disciplines. Let me make another example: China Agricultural University and Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications. CAU mainly serves agricultural industry, while BUPT mainly serves information technology industry. Compare the transformation of S&T achievements of the two universities, CAU is not as good as BUPT. Nonetheless, CAU also bear the responsibility for rural revitalization and the rural modernization in China. Many teachers are engaged in public welfare and social services, such as Professor Xiaoyun Li’s poverty alleviation project in riverside village. It is easy to ignore the social service function of university, which is an urgent problem to be solved.

In addition, the research evaluation system is more about effectiveness evaluation, and lacks of performance evaluation. It is not good to only focus on the output. We should comprehensively consider the input and the output. For example, the input of a SCI paper in CAU and the input in Peking University are quite different. The results of scientific research evaluation directly relate to the national financial allocation of colleges and universities, so it is very necessary to distinguish the evaluation object and adopt the performance evaluation method.

Interview conducted by: Ke Wu

The reputation of distinguished archivist Aurelio Tanodi is acclaimed in the vast majority of Latin American countries and even in Europe. His theoretical work planted the seed of the knowledge of archival preservation in the region and for many years it was required reading for those who dared to embrace the profession, still unknown to many not only in America but also in other parts of the world. Master Tanodi, or Professor Tanodi, as many of his students called him, inspired other archivists not only to promote the archival sciences but also to spearhead the development of archives in their own countries. For new generations of archivists, Tanodi’s name is not as well known today, and since we represent a profession dedicated to the preservation of memory, Archivoz Magazine wishes to remember the man considered to be the Father of Latin American archival studies. What better way to do it, than to interview his daughter, Branka Tanodi, herself an archivist, so she might tell us of the legacy of Don Aurelio Tanodi.

(Archivoz) Tell us a little about Professor Aurelio Tanodi’s immigration to Argentina and how he became involved with archival work.

(B.T.) His interest in and contact with archival science began during his years as a history student in Croatia, with a focus on palaeography and diplomatics. His research in these areas connected him with the archive.

After completion of his studies in 1938, he began to work in the Municipal Archive of Varazdin, in the medieval documents department. At the suggestion of his former professor of paleography, he went to work at the Croatian National Archive in Zagreb in 1940, in the middle of World War II. His duties included, among others things, inspections of the various archives across the country. During this time, he also broadened his studies in archival science, and he obtained a  Ph.D. in history. After the war he emigrated for political reasons—namely, the rise to power of Marshal Josip Broz (Tito). In 1946, during his exile in Austria, in addition to studying law, he did research at the Styrian Provincial Archive, visited various others, and conceived the idea of ​​creating an archive dedicated to the experiences of Croatian migrants, a project that failed to materialize when he traveled to Rome to work with the Pontifical University of Saint Anthony of the Franciscan Fathers. His passage to Italy, according to his own account, was like this: “one night in February 1947 I crossed, with the help of a Tyrolean friar, the icy, snowy heights of the Brenero Pass, dodging Austrian and Italian border forces along the way.” In Rome, from 1947 to 1948, he studied archivology in the Vatican Secret Archives and librarianship at the Vatican Apostolic Library. Although the Franciscans wanted him to remain at the Secret Archive as a specialist in documents related to Slavic peoples, his destiny brought him instead to Argentina in 1948, aboard a North American troop transport, in the service of the Red Cross, which had granted him the passport to be able to travel.

(Archivoz) What were Professor Tanodi’s early years at the University of Córdoba like?

(B.T.) At first, he worked in Buenos Aires in a textile factory, then moved to Comodoro Rivadavia, where he was chief of staff of a construction company. While there, he received news in 1953 that the new curriculum of the School of Philosophy and Humanities of the National University of Córdoba had created the position of chair of Paleography and Diplomatics, and he applied for the position. Once hired, he organized the Misiones Universitarias Archivológicas, through which he sought to evaluate a number of the important archives in Argentina. This evaluation, which revealed a lack of professionally trained personnel, underscored the need for a school of archivology, which subsequently was established in 1959.

(Archivoz) Argentina has been recognized among Latin American countries as a pioneer in the field of archival development. Its work reached its high water mark in the 20th century, at the School of Archivology in Córdoba.

(B.T) As the organizer and director of the only School of Archivology in the country, my father had to function not only as a teacher, but also as a facilitator of research, advice, coordination and archival extension, to train archivists for the entire national territory, until other programs were established, especially in Buenos Aires. He organized the First Conference of Archivists of Argentina in 1959, which was no easy task due to the lack of both awareness and economic wherewithal. More conferences followed at intervals of several years. He taught courses in several Argentine cities, gave consultations, and published books, monographs, and articles. Under his direction, the School of Archivists became the benchmark in archival matters, since it was the only one in the country.

(Archivoz) The Inter-American Center for Archival Development (CIDA), sponsored by the OAS [Organization of American States], marked a turning point for Latin American archival development. The leading archivists of the region were trained there, and from there Professor Tanodi’s influence spread to a number of countries, such as Colombia, Peru, Costa Rica, Chile, becoming almost a regional movement. What aspects of the collaboration between Professor Tanodi and CIDA would you highlight from those glorious years?

(B.T.) CIDA was founded to address the lack of training for archivists in the region, a shortcoming verified by Dr. Tanodi’s visits to various repositories in the OAS member countries. The shortage of personnel with the necessary knowledge to carry out executive tasks or manage the internal organization of the archives prompted the OAS to sponsor the courses.

The Inter-American Center for Archival Development (CIDA) was originally called the Inter-American Center for Archives Formation (CIFA). It was formed based on an agreement between the Organization of American States (OAS) and the Argentine Foreign Ministry. Although other locations were proposed, it was ultimately based in Córdoba due to the presence there of Dr. Aurelio Tanodi.

I believe that the Center owed its high level of academic quality to several factors. First and foremost, to the professionalism and effort that Dr. Tanodi put into designing the courses, without neglecting the smallest detail. The selection of scholarship recipients, the curriculum, the professors–from whom he demanded the greatest dedication and commitment—also contributed. The visits made by scholarship recipients to the various repositories, along with written descriptions submitted afterwards, the practicums and internships in Buenos Aires at the General Archive of the Nation, the assistance rendered to other public and private repositories: all this contributed to the high quality of the program.

The information exchange between scholarship recipients and professors regarding archival practices in their respective countries was also very enriching. In many cases, this exchange helped to define one’s own situation, also of course contributing to a knowledge of the broader regional situation, and helped suggest solutions to challenges at all levels.

Visiting professors, who came to Córdoba to teach courses in their different specialties, contributed further to the training of scholarship recipients. I want to highlight, without reflection upon the abilities of any of the scholars, the several visits of Dr. Vicenta Cortés Alonso–who died recently—as the first and one of the most noteworthy guests at the Center. She directed another OAS Center, located in Madrid (Spain), which focused more on historical archives, whereas the one in Córdoba was dedicated to administrative archives.

The Center also offered bibliographic material on archives to course participants, much of which was printed onsite. The Inter-American Archives Bulletin, later the Inter-American Archives Yearbook, published in the Publications Directorate of the National University of Córdoba, directed by Dr. Tanodi, was an important factor, as well as provision of technical apparatus such as a printing press, supplies and equipment for microfilming and a restoration workshop. I even believe that the first computer that arrived at the National University of Córdoba was sent by the OAS for the CIDA courses.

All of this helped to change a widely held belief, one that is still very common and tinged with a certain humor or irony: that appointment to archival work was used as punishment, generally for political reasons or personal resentments.

(Archivoz) In spite of receiving international acclaim for the high quality of its academic output, which placed it on a par with master’s-level studies, CIDA’s training program, attached to the University of Córdoba, was closed. Why was this, especially at a time when greater numbers of skillful archivists are needed in the region?

(B.T.) General economic conditions within the OAS were the main reason for the closure. The original program was slated to last 10 years but was extended for another five due to its success. Fortunately, so as not to end such a successful initiative, it was later divided between two centers of operation: one in Lima, Peru, and the other in San José, Costa Rica, with oversight from the countries’ respective National Archives. Two former participants from the Córdoba center assumed the responsibility of continuing with the project.

(Archivoz) As an immigrant, why do you think your father, Professor Tanodi, dedicated himself so passionately to the development of Latin American archival science?

(B.T.) On this point I will paraphrase his own words, which I believe most accurately express his passion for archival science in general and his commitment to the development of Latin American archives specifically: upon obtaining citizenship, finding himself in the ‘arid Patagonian latitudes,’ he kissed the ground and promised to dedicate his life to his great passion: archives. He remained faithful to his decision to work for Argentina and Latin America in the face of political and ideological fluctuations, struggling to build up a scientific field that has a silent but fundamental impact on historical research and administrative organization.

(Archivoz) Do you believe it is possible today to speak of a Latin American archival tradition originating in the theoretical postulates of Professor Tanodi?

(B.T.) I know that we can. My father laid the foundation with his Manual of Hispano-American Archivology, a text still considered seminal in the field of Latin American archival studies today. The fundamental concepts are there, although since its publication in 1961, much more has been written about archival theory and practice.

(Archivoz) Is it reasonable to suggest that the archival sciences are undergoing an identity crisis, given continuous and ongoing changes in the means and methods of recording information?

(B.T.) The basic tenets of archival science remain the same, even if current archival practices respond to new scientific developments. There will always be concern for proper administrative management of documentation produced by organizations of all sizes, from major ministries down to the smallest companies. Work related to document management, organization, and description goes on, even in the light of new electronic formats, which are themselves a response to modern technological develoments. This has been an ongoing debate over the last two decades in both national and international congresses and conferences, and manifests a great concern among professionals about the need to update archival procedures.

(Archivoz) What does it mean to you to be the daughter and, at the same time, a colleague of Professor Tanodi, whose legacy is recognized both throughout the region and in the wider world of archival science?

(B.T.) Above all, I must admit that it makes me very proud. It was also a huge responsibility during my years as a teacher and researcher, since I strove not to disappoint the master. I appreciate his guidance and advice, always given with the best of dispositions, and I also remember our long conversations on the subjects about which we both were passionate: palaeography, diplomatics, and especially archives.

(Archivoz) What would your father think of the position in which Latin American archivology finds itself today, especially in light of the challenge represented by the ongoing digitalization of society?

(B.T.) Being familiar with his manner of thought, I am sure he would be a strong advocate of new technologies.

He was always a visionary and ahead of his time. In conference presentations, as early as the 1980s, when speaking on archival universalism, he argued that “new technologies, which are more or less uniform in their structure and procedures, will necessarily lead to fundamental changes in the practices of archival work, in light of the dizzyingly precipitate nature of scientific-technological progress, along with other realities of human development. The quantitative explosion of documentation written and reproduced on paper and qualitative improvements represented by new platforms for content or text are both reasons for this technological innovation and a result of its systematization and consultation, and bring about new circumstances that promise a true revolution…which requires of the modern archivist a great degree of flexibility, in order quickly to adapt  to the application of new procedures that break repeatedly and often into the time-honored and generally measured evolution of the average archive, a manner of working that in many Ibero-American institutions dates back to the Portuguese-Hispanic colonial era.”

(Archivoz) Finally, given your deep knowledge of your father’s work, what would you say is Professor Aurelio Tanodi’s main legacy to Latin American archival studies?

(B.T.) Surely his true legacy has been the expansion of archival studies in Latin America, a source of expertise now recognized throughout Latin America and beyond. All this emerged from one School of Archivology in a city in the far south of the American continent, the effort of a Croatian immigrant who dedicated himself passionately to the growth and prestige of archives and the archival profession.

(Archivoz, in collaboration with Carlos Alberto Zapata) When will a history of the Inter-American Center for Archival Development be ready for publication? Such a work is a pressing concern for those who wish to learn of your father’s work and that of all the Latin American archivists who studied in the classrooms of the University of Córdoba.

(B.T.) I am indebted to Professor Carlos Zapata, and have not forgotten the promise I made to him in Asunción (Paraguay), at the VIII Ibero-American Congress of University Archives, to write a history of the Inter-American Center for Archival Development.

I began that project with great enthusiasm, but for various reasons it could not be completed. The matter was complicated last year, under circumstances well known to all, by the forced closure of the School of Archivology of the National University in Córdoba, which is where the relevant documentation resides. I will tell you that I found, among the names of scholarship recipients of the III Inter-American Archival Training Course, in 1976, that of your father, León Jaime Zapata García. I will continue the project as soon as I can access the documents again.

Our profound thanks to Professor Branka for her willingness to participate in this interview honoring the work of her father, the Professor Aurelio Tanodi. Likewise, our thanks to our friend Carlos Alberto Zapata, who facilitated the interview. Thank you for supporting Archivoz and making it possible for us to tell these kinds of stories, of such great value to new generations of archivists around the world.

We continue with the interview that we began yesterday with José López Yepes, advocate of university studies in library and documentation science in Spain and one of the chief experts in its philosophical underpinnings.

(Archivoz) Another highlight of your career has involved assisting new researchers in their development through thesis supervision, and in that capacity you have advised some of the most outstanding researchers in our field. What are the most important elements in the work of a thesis supervisor?

(José López Yepes) Indeed, I attribute this to my teacher, Professor Desantes, and the effort he and other mentors made to instill in me a vocation for research. He was a great research director, and he trained me well. In a letter recently sent to the magazine El Profesional de la Información, I have addressed this question. It is about recognizing that research is both science and passion, knowledge and feelings; that the director must take both of these aspects into account and that he must be present in each and every one of the phases of the investigative process; that he is jointly responsible for it and that he shares with the thesis candidate both in the process of research and in the end result. Ultimately, it seems to me that the role of the director is essential to the choice of the topic, in the insistent monitoring of the work schedule and in the careful reading of the developing text, taking into account the caliber of a  doctoral student’s contributions to scientific knowledge as well as in terms of style and quality of writing. A good thesis, a true thesis not only solves useful scientific problems but also communicates its content well. All this requires that the director of the thesis enjoy the task since his main compensation is the satisfaction of having trained a new researcher and of having learned together with him, that is, having reached the top together.

(Archivoz) I daresay that all the students in Spanish universities, and a large portion of the students in Latin American universities, have been introduced to this science by way of your textbooks (in my case, that textbook was What is documentation? : the history of the concept in Spain), which are a doorway to a field of knowledge the diversity and breadth of which perhaps until then we as students did not fully understand. How do you teach your students that before advancement in the knowledge of a discipline is possible, they must first think and reflect on the nature of their understanding? What would you highlight about your years as a university professor?

(JLY) The evident starting point for the study of any discipline is a knowledge of its historical origins and its current state of development. Disciplines such as law, medicine, or philosophy, that enjoy a long tradition and pedigree, have been defined, established, and strengthened over time and are not often questioned. On the contrary, in our field it is not like that. Ours is a relatively young disicpline (for example, within the Spanish university it has been an official field of study for less than 50 years). Hence the frequency with which we ask ourselves in writings and in forums what we are, what professional in our field should look like, and what our role should be in the scientific and social community. I dealt with these questions in my books of 1978 and 1995, and more recently in a booklet entitled The science of documentary information : the discipline, the document, and the information professional in the digital age (Mexico DF, 2015), which summarizes all my concerns in this area. In Spain, I have noticed less interest in these theoretical and epistemological questions than is expressed in other countries in our academic environment, such as Mexico, Colombia and Brazil.

Regarding the last part of the question, what stands out most from my career as a professor of documentation science is the real intellectual adventure represented by entry into this field. I was able to discover and explore new territories, which increased my enthusiasm and enthusiasm for an institution such as the university, whose nature never disappoints. My work was made easier by the fact that I always had teams of enthusiastic people working with me. For me, happiness and a career in the university go hand in hand.

(Archivoz) You are one of the great experts in the philosophical underpinnings of information and documentation science. After all these years, where have your reflections on these issues led you? How does the speed at which our field progresses influence these questions?

(JLY) Thank you for the compliment. As your question notes, the search for a philosophy of documentation has been a constant theme throughout my work in the field, as have the methodological and evaluative aspects of research. I still think that the terminological conflict that our discipline suffers from is a hindrance to an understanding of what our field is, the paths we should follow, and, above all, exactly how to position ourselves within academia and as professionals. We cannot fall asleep. On the contrary, we must constantly rethink these issues and revise them continually, given the speed of movement in an information-bsed society. Keeping this in mind, I have tried to promote this type of research and, of course, to attend forums on the study of these issues.

(Archivoz) Finally, we did not want to bid you farewell without congratulating you on your numerous national and international recognitions, having even being named “Doctor Honoris Causa” by the Universidad Mayor de San Andrés (Bolivia). Could you tell us a bit about your relationship with Latin American universities and the work that has been done there in recent years?

(JLY) Once again, thank you very much for your congratulations. The fact that you ask this question is the best recognition I could receive at the end of my administrative career. It is something that has left an indelible mark on me and has allowed me to establish personal and very affective ties with the Universidad Mayor de San Andrés de La Paz, especially with its Faculty of Humanities and Education and, more specifically, within the Information Sciences program. I have observed a great partnership there between teachers, students, and administrators who share a common goal, an immense desire to learn and to seek new horizons. I cannot fail to mention the Dean of Faculty, Mtra. M. Eugenia Pareja, and the program’s director, Lic. Freddy Maidana, who are individuals with a great capacity for enthusiasm. I enjoy a strong relationship with Mexican universities. Mexico was in fact my first host country, since Dr. Elsa M. Ramírez, current director of the UNAM library system, approached us to establish an arrangement enabling select researchers from the University Center for Library Research (currently IIBI) could obtain a doctorate from our program in Spain. The first doctorate awarded was to Dr. Araceli Vargas, the current director of the IIBI. That first seed has borne interesting fruit: in addition to producing the Hispano-Mexican Seminars, participants from other universities, such as San Luis Potosí, Chiapas, Baja California Sur, ENBA, Panamericana, and Iberoamericana have joined this program. In all, forty-two doctorates have been awarded to candidates from Mexico over the last twenty-five years, work that has been strongly supported by academic leaders in that country, such as Dr. Estela Morales, former coordinator of Humanities at UNAM, and by the directors of our department in Madrid, such as Dr. María Teresa Fernández Bajón.

(Continuation of the interview published yesterday, January 4, 2021, and conducted on November 18, 2020)

Interview conducted by Victor Villapalos

Cover image by Antonio Peiró

Today we have the pleasure of interviewing José López Yepes, one of the greatest thinkers in the field of documentation management in Spain and Latin America, influential promoter of university studies in library science and documentation in Spain, and a chief expert in the developing epistemology of documentation science.

(Archivoz) Dr. Yepes, we are honored by your willingness to participate in our project, and we thank you for your time. We would like to start by asking you, as the first university professor in our field, about your experiences in the university setting. What is your professional background, and what difficulties did you have to face until this branch of knowledge had its own differentiated space within the university?

(José López Yepes) I completed a B.A. in Philosophy and Letters (Romance Philology Section) in 1968 and a Ph.D. in Philosophy and Letters from the University of Madrid (the adjective Complutense was not used yet) in 1971. In the 1969-1970 academic year, Professor José Fradejas Lebrero put forward my name for an assistant professor position in medieval literature at the same university. I remained in that position until the 1975-76 academic year, when I became an interim Associate Professor of Documentation in the Faculty of Information Sciences. This shift was apparently very strange and unexpected, but in fact, my entry into the world of documentation science dates to 1967, when I joined the recently founded Fund for Economic and Social Research of the Spanish Confederation of Savings Banks, directed by one of my great teachers, Professor José María Desantes Guanter, then a professor of Information Law who emphasized the training of researchers and the decisive importance of documentation sources and their correct handling as indispensable to good research. During that time I also worked under Dr. Juan Roger Rivière, head of International Documentation at the CSIC; I was in close contact with Javier Lasso de la Vega (he gave me his copy of the famous Otlet Documentation Treaty); I took charge of the library of the entity; I edited a Documentation Bulletin; and I organized training courses in documentation technique for managers of libraries and savings banks archives at the Summer University of Santander. Well-known professors such as José Simón Díaz, Manuel Carrión, Javier Lasso de la Vega, José Manuel Ruiz Asencio, Isabel Fonseca, etc., participated in these courses.

In 1975, when the position of Associate Professor of Documentation in the Faculty of Information Sciences of the Complutense University of Madrid opened up, I was invited to fill the position temporarily. I was 29 years old. For me, it was a leap into the unknown. I was leaving behind the field of medieval literature, which I did with the agreement of my teachers, Drs. Fradejas and Simón Díaz. The Body of Associate Professors was a prelude to the future chair and was the first position of full professor of Documentation that was endowed by the Spanish university. In 1980, forty years ago, I attained the position of professor. The endowment of the position was due to the inclusion of the subject in the study plan of 1971, I believe, and to the influence of the aforementioned Professor Desantes and Alfonso Nieto, professor of Business Information, who later became rector of the University of Navarre.

The application process for the associate professorship consisted of six exercises evaluated by a tribunal composed of six members chosen at random presided over by a chairman appointed by the Council of Universities. I had a competitor, an opponent, as they said then, an illustrious archivist, Dr. Vicente Cortés, a woman of great character and personality. I remember her with admiration. She was the first to congratulate when the contest had ended, on January 28, 1978, the feast of Saint Thomas Aquinas. It was snowing in Madrid. I took this step in my academic career with the support of the people and writings of the School of Archives and Libraries, the School of Documentalists, the scholars of the Information and Documentation Center of the CSIC, and the work of teachers of the University of Valencia such as Dr. López Piñero, founder of the school of medical documentation, and Dr. Mateu Ibars.

As I recall, in 1978 the Ministry of Education also convened a meeting with a university administrator named Martí Devese, which I attended along with Professor Simón Díaz and several representatives of the School of Library Science of the Provincial Council of Barcelona, such as Professor Carme Mayol, who had asked the Ministry that library science be officially recognized and incorporated into university curricula. This meeting resulted in the creation of an official curriculum, in which the term “Librarianship and Documentation” was coined. The departments that would confer these degrees took their names from that curriculum.

To answer the second part of the question, that is, how I went about enhancing the visibility and personality of our field, I did so with the enthusiastic help of my colleagues and people like rectors Gustavo Villapalos and Rafael Puyol, Dean Angel Benito, Dr. María Ruiz Trapero and Vice-Rector Benjamín Fernández. Most notably: 1) In the first place, that the position filled by means of the competition-opposition not be left unoccupied. Not everyone recognized the scientific nature of our discipline. As there were no precedents, a framework had to be established, and this gave rise to my book, Theory of Documentation (1978), later published in a second edition called Documentation as a Discipline: Theory and History (1995); 2) Creation of the Department of Documentation as a part of UCM’s Faculty of Information Sciences, along with its ongoing journal, Documentación de las Ciencias de la Información, launched in 1976; 3) Creation in 1990 of the University School of Library and Information Science of the UCM, which I directed for eight years, a period which also saw the foundation in 1991 of the Revista General de Información y Documentación and, a year earlier, the School of Library Science of the University of Murcia, which I was asked by the rector of that university to help create; 4) Promotion of research through support for doctoral studies; 5) The organization in 2000 of the first (and so far only) University Conference of Documentation Sciences; 6) Oversight of the first monographic collection dedicated to our field, published by Editorial Síntesis; 7) Implementation of a Master of Documentation for postgraduates, in the development of which our late fellow founder of SEDIC, Dr. Emilia Currás, played an important role. Likewise, the creation of a Bachelor of Documentation was a success for our profession, as it allowed the establishment of doctorates, etc. In recent years, various universities have adapted their curricula, focusing more on practical knowledge working with technologies and digital content.

(Archivoz) As you mentioned, in recent years, various universities have been adapting their curricula, focusing them more on practical knowledge working with technologies and digital content. What do you think of this evolution? What do you think of the future of these degree programs, and of the balance between development of technique and allowing space for deeper and more reflective study within these programs?

(JLY) As you know, incorporation of technologies and digital content has made it possible to save large amounts of information and allows for instantaneous retrieval and dissemination of that information in cyberspace. In short, allows individuals to publish with relative ease, which has led to exponential growth in the number of documents, including those of a scientific nature, that are available for consumption. These new technologies allow for acquisition of a great deal of information in a very short time, which has accelerated advances in all areas of research, advances which have logical favorable repercussions on society at large. If we take into account that years ago only what was valuable could be published, the new situation has introduced a culture of permanent evaluation in which teachers and researchers continually risk their “lives and finances”. This has given a leading role to evaluative agencies, and has led to an incessant search for evaluative tools in order to determine the quality of publications. In my modest opinion, these circumstances, which are really unavoidable, have led us, perhaps, sometimes to focus on information obtained from initial, superficial searches, to overvalue the role of metrics and the quantitative, and, above all, to sometimes overlook the relationship between research and redaction, that is, to to provide enjoyment and not simply in the interests of favorable evaluations. Let us also consider the ethical questions arising from some of these circumstances.

Beyond this, it is obvious that degree programs are adapting themselves to the increased use of technologies and digital content that is affecting all disciplines, although they must try to maintain the distinction between tools, which are accessory, and the enrichment and transformation of content, which is essential. In the case of our discipline, we remain in a permanent state of flux due to the changing information needs of society, which grants to the individual an ever-increasing capacity for self-documentation. This is reflected in study plans that attempt constantly to imagine what kind of professionals they should seek to create. In this context, there are three concepts that require constant reflection: the nature of the discipline, that of the document, and that of the information professional in the digital age.

(Archivoz) How is the constant evolution of audiovisual and multimedia technologies, social networks such as YouTube or academic-scientific networks like Academia.edu and Researchgate.net, and increased production and dissemination of new knowledge affecting studies in the library and documentation sciences?

(JLY) To link this answer to the previous question, it is evident that YouTube is a formidable instrument that even I make use of in my critical reading. Regarding academic-scientific networks, I think they can contribute to debates and express opinions that can counteract the possible biases of reviewers of articles. More frequent use could reflect the public controversies that have advanced scientific fields in other eras.

Regarding the evolution of audiovisual and multimedia technologies more broadly, I cannot fail to highlight the efforts of our department to emphasize audiovisual and multimedia documentation through promotion of international networks and events and other initiatives such as publication of the Multimedia Documentation Notebooks.

Finally, I would also relate question to the training of documentary information professionals. In effect, these individuals are true communicators, being part of a process in which previously created information is transformed into information units (archives, libraries, etc.) which in turn makes them into effective sources for the production of  new information. In this way, existing information, which tends to pass and be forgotten, gives way to documentary information which, with a vocation for eternity, lends itself to being reused based on the reinterpretations of different people in different times and different places. It is, in short, information about what remains. In this context, the documentary information professional adds value to the current information stream by evaluating its veracity and usefulness in order to pass it on to the user in the most efficient ways possible.

(Part II of this interview, conducted November 18, 2020, will be published tomorrow, January 5, 2021)

Interview conducted by Victor Villapalos

Cover image by Antonio Peiró

Click here to read the first part of the interview with the RickyRenuncia Project.

(AE) You use Scalar as a platform for the website. What were the reasons you chose it? And, in general, terms, what should initiatives and projects have in mind when selecting archiving, access and preservation tools for digital materials?

(JBR) I was working with other colleagues from the University of Puerto Rico, who were working on the Diáspora project. This initiative involved documenting migration in Puerto Rico and the rest of the Antilles within the context of carnival. It was from that project that I came to know about Scalar. It’s a platform developed by a university for digital humanities, digital stewardship and publishing projects. It gives you various alternatives for interactivity and ways of presenting information. It’s not a static website, and I have to say it, it is free.

Because our project was spontaneous and we had no institutional support, we decided to go with Scalar. We saw what the platform had to offer and used the main page as a hub, which could link out to the Twitter web archive. We also used other tools such as timelines and map stories to document the protests happening all over the world. Like every platform, it has its pros and cons. Scalar is a platform for diffusion, not for preservation, so the other thing we had in mind was what to do in order to preserve the content. We’re speaking with the Digital Library of the Caribbean to see if the materials that we are compiling can become part of their collection.

(MR) What is called in english “open-source” has good and bad aspects. The good aspect is the cost, but at the same time you need someone who has the skills to make customizations. It’s like Joel said, the first thing you have to ask yourself is what is the story you want to present, what elements are you able to coordinate, and what is the tool that can help you achieve that. Also, you have to make a lot of decisions before landing on a tool. Because if you start without a purpose, you end up making a mess and people abandon the project. That’s the reason why a lot of projects start and then die, because people don’t plan for the long term. I knew that we would eventually need to move the project from a free user account to one where we had to pay to have more control over the assets and customization. We started using ‘Reclaim Hosting’, which supports universities on digital projects through a subscription process. It was clear from the beginning that we would have to move in that direction and work with someone with the technical skills to adjust and make any necessary changes on the web portal.

(AE) Cataloging of the webpages was done mainly by volunteers, apart from being able to complete tasks more quickly with a larger team, what is the benefit of this type of crowdsourcing?

(MR) It’s an opportunity to gain hands-on experience on a project that has a real impact on society. Especially for students who are in library or archival studies programs. For example, Joel created manuals to instruct people on how to find information and we also credit volunteers as being part of the project ‘s team. This didn’t happen because we’re doing everything, this was a collaboration and it’s also a reflection of what we’re documenting.

(JBR) It creates a community of librarians and archivists who are interested in contributing and collaborating. It creates an important community based on helping each other and being part of a larger documentary process.

(AE) What do you hope will be the reception of this collection in Puerto Rico?

(MR) Until now all the reactions have been through Facebook or Twitter, where people have been getting in touch to donate or to support the initiative. My hope is to keep growing this website as the idea is to collect materials to donate to the University of Florida. The reality is that, as much as we like our Scalar project, these digital projects have a cycle and eventually there will come a time when the site won’t make sense anymore or where we reach the point of achieving what we set out to do.

We’d like for the collection to be a starting point for researchers, so that people may study and reflect on what it meant to be Puerto Rican during this specific time, both on the island and abroad. We’re not trying to be the RickyRenuncia experts, but we’d like to be a model that inspires people to create their own documentation projects.

(IFR) The archives and library community in Puerto Rico have given us a lovely welcome and I’ve received emails from our colleagues in the Diáspora project inviting others to donate materials. I hope these materials are used and for our project to be a tool for researchers and students in other fields and academic communities. 

Klaudia M. Zabala y Jaime G. Cabán showing their protest signs. 22 July 2019, San Juan, Puerto Rico.

(JBR) We see this as the conclusion of the first phase. And the second phase is the most important as it’s focused on calling on those who want to donate their photos, videos, and ephemera. I also think the next step is to connect what happened with RickyRenuncia to a wider social context. The RickyRenuncia anniversary came and went without much celebration due to the situation we’re all living in right now. But that doesn’t mean that people will forget, and the fact that we’re still documenting opens up the possibility of that memory being continually activated.

(AE) Is there anything else you’d like to add?

(MR) In relation to the first anniversary of the protests, I went to a conference where we were collectively reflecting on the protests and what they ultimately meant. I announced that we were about to launch this project and the reaction was really positive. Precisely because we will be part of a collective reflection of what it means to be Puerto Rican. How do you define Puerto Rican identity within and outside the island? What is the sense of solidarity between both experiences? I see our project as a part of these greater conversations.

(MR) There are people who ask why we haven’t done a similar initiative with other events such as Hurricane María and the earthquakes. Firstly, there are already other people doing that work and for me, the RickyReuncia protests represent one of the few positive things that have come out of Puerto Rico and that doesn’t portray Puerto Ricans as victims. That has been one of the main narratives by the media in Puerto Rico as in the United States and worldwide. What took place last summer reinforces the idea that we as Puerto Ricans are not victims but survivors. The protests of RickyRenuncia come from the social movements of Vieques, student-led strikes and protests and of la Telefónica. We are heirs to all these protest movements that have not happened in a vacuum, but rather are part of a history we’ve been making since 1898. This is not a spontaneous event but a continuation and it’s important to remind people that we have the capacity to control our own future and continue to move forward. When we started this initiative, we had no idea we would eventually have funds from the University of Connecticut to pay programmers nor that we would be grantees of an IMLS grant. I believe this is the beginning of many new things and we are three Puerto Ricans who know each other from the University of Puerto Rico and spontaneously came together. If we can continue to inspire people to see that in actuality you do not need much money to start a similar project, well here we are.

Header image: List of most popular hashtags collected by TWARC.

Interview by Cristina Fontánez Rodríguez, Yvette Ramírez, and Caroline Gil.

On July 13th, 2019 the Center for Investigative Journalism (Centro de Periodismo Investigativo) published 889 pages of leaked Telegram chat logs between the then-governor of Puerto Rico, Ricardo Roselló Nevares, and members of his cabinet. The chat logs contained misgoninistic and homophobic comments as well as corruption schemes. “Don’t we have a cadaver to feed our crows?” wrote a high ranking member of the government in the chat, in reference to the deaths caused by Hurricane María, which struck the island in 2018. It is estimated that 4,600 people died as a result of the hurricane.

As an immediate result of the leaked chats, Puerto Ricans collectively called for the governor’s resignation, a call that was tagged as #RickyRenuncia on social media. After two weeks of massive protests, on July 24th, 2019, Ricardo Rosselló announced his resignation on the official government Facebook page.

#RickyRenuncia
✊✊✊??
Esto fué hermoso ❤ pic.twitter.com/9eAN9CVy84

— Maldo5ht (@maldo5ht) July 25, 2019

The RickyRenuncia Project seeks to preserve digital materials (video, audio, images, news, tweets, amongst others) related to the governor’s resignation. In this interview, Marisol Ramos, Latin American and Iberian Studies Librarian at the University of California, Santa Barbara, Joel Blanco Rivera, professor at the Escuela Nacional de Conservación, Restauración y Museografía in Mexico City, and Irmarie Fraticelli Rodríguez, graduate student in Information Science at the University of Michigan, met with Archivistas en Espanglish to talk about how they tasked themselves with compiling physical and digital materials related to the protest and the importance of documenting events like these through non-traditional methods.

(Archivistas en Espanglish) How did this project and collaboration come about?

Tweet most widely shared during the protests.

(Joel) The project started in the midst of the protests. Marisol posted on Facebook asking if anyone was documenting what was happening. So, I replied because as soon as the protests started I began to collect tweets with the #RickyRenuncia hashtag. From there, it was organic, the conversations began and shortly thereafter Irmarie was integrated into the group.

(Irmarie) Everything was spontaneous. It was all done through comments and conversations on Facebook. From my end, I got the idea of collecting protest signs while at the massive protest at the Luis A. Ferré Highway. People were discarding them because it was raining and they were soaked. Marisol put me in touch with Fernando Acosta, an archivist at the Princeton Library Digital Latin American Archive of Ephemera, where they focus on collecting Puerto Rican materials and so the signs were of great interest to them.

(JBR) So, Irmarie had the protest signs and I was working on Twitter and that’s where the idea to collect web materias, especially news articles, came from. Then I heard that the Internet Archive has a collection called “Spontaneous Events Collection”, which allows groups to build their collections without having to pay a subscription to Archive-It. So we sent the Internet Archive a proposal via email and the next day they had accepted it. Our responsibility was to select the resources that were going to make up a part of the collection and work on metadata. The team at the Internet Archive took care of all the technical aspects.

(AE) Could you talk about your own experiences during the summer of 2019 and how those personal experiences shaped the project, the content curation, access pathways, etc?

(MR) Those of us who live outside of Puerto Rico have witnessed what is happening in Puerto Rico and we also witness what is happening to Puerto Ricans in the diaspora. In the United States, Puerto Ricans were connecting with each other and organizing marches. That touched us. This wasn’t just a thing happening on a little island in the Caribbean. The internet and social media have expanded who views themselves as being part of the boricua identity. I have a friend in Estonia and he would photograph events, being the only Puerto Rican there, he would post them on Facebook and talk about how he felt there and how he wanted to be part of the protests in Puerto Rico, given that he had been involved in the Vieques protests. That was more or less what resonated with me and it made me think about things that we should discuss more often.

(JBR) My experience is similar to Marisol’s, but being in Mexico. On a personal level, I felt solidarity but also nostalgia. I don’t know if nostalgia is the correct word, but I felt I wanted to be there as a Puerto Rican but also as an archivist. That’s why I’ve focused on archiving tweets. I had a dataset of tweets relating to the 2017 University of Puerto Rico strike. During that semester, Irmarie was my student and at that time I was working with my students on archiving tweets using Scalar, and working on themes surrounding the fiscal crisis and budgetary cuts affecting the University. So, when the Rosselló leak happened, I had the interest to continue to collect tweets. Also as an archivist, I know that we can’t wait a year to start compiling materials on social media–mainly because of the technology. But that also can lead to a process where you are just accumulating and that is not what we wanted to do. It was more of a process of selection.

(IFR) At that moment I was on the island and I would have never thought I was going to end up doing archival work because I saw myself as a person in the protests. I too was angry. I too wanted to go to La Fortaleza [governor’s mansion] to protest and I also brought my own protest signs. It wasn’t until I saw what Marisol was posting on Facebook that I realized that I also hold the knowledge to document these events and that I had to use that knowledge. I remember that on that same massive protest, I had asked my sister: “Should I grab the signs? Would you all do that with me?”. And so we all ended up collecting signs while it rained. At that moment, I didn’t use a lot of selection criteria because I knew that I had to approach people, that I had to be quick, and that I had to recognize that others were angry as well. So I took advantage of the situation and picked up signs that people were discarding while quickly interviewing protestors. I could only ask their name and why they were there. I collected 7 audio files of people reading their banners and it’s interesting that you can hear the anger in their voices.

(AE) Why did you decide to start archiving web pages and tweets to document this particular moment in history?

Posters from the protests as they dried. “A low-cost improvised process!”, noted Irmarie humorously.

(MR) One of the reasons is that we wanted to show that Puerto Rico is part of social movements far larger than the island itself. What happened last summer is not an isolated event but a larger response that adopted strategies and social movements happening at a global scale. If you look at what was being shared on social media, you see the merging of feminist, anti-capitalist, anti-corruption, anti-racist, and LGBTQ movements, among others. Communication was happening online by large and there were differences between what was showing up in the media and what was actually happening on the streets. That is why we emphasized on amplifying a variety of perspectives that were not necessarily covered by the main news outlets who instead craft a narrative and control how the story will be represented. Suddenly you have an emphasis on certain celebrities and themes like Ricky Martin, Bad Bunny, el Rey Charlie, and “perreo combativo” and it’s awesome but there were other things happening and other groups of people participating as well. That is why we emphasize the digital. And with their ephemeral quality, not many archives in Puerto Rico nor the US have the flexibility or capacity to preserve this type of medium. Meanwhile, we have worked on this subject for years. We felt that we could push back on existing standards and barriers that exist within web and social media archiving. If we don’t break from tradition, thousands of stories will disappear.

(JBR) Part of what has been documented is only one representation of how the protests took place, particularly the use of social media as the main means of communication. It’s important to point out the fact that social media is ephemeral as is the fact that protests were also happening outside of the capital city of San Juan. The island’s main news outlets prioritized what was taking place in San Juan, specifically Old San Juan. The reality of course is that protests took place all over Puerto Rico and in the United States as well. In our web collection we not only bring focus to the main newspapers in Puerto Rico but also show how regional newspapers covered what was taking place. It was important that we identify these news items as another way of documenting what took place. There will always be an official archive that tells a particular story, but other perspectives of what happened also exist and we believe they are equally as important to preserve and share.

(MR) It is also worth mentioning that the signs used for the protests were created for single use and not intended for preservation purposes. If Irmarie had not been there, aside from other archivists and librarians also doing this work, we would hardly have a record of this aspect of the protests. Even then they only represent a fraction of all the posters created during this period, their only other record is via the photographs of the protests taken by individuals who were present. This is why the physical aspect of collecting is important even if what is left behind is the ephemeral.

(IFR) It was crucial to gather memes. Many of the calls to action in relation to the protests were carried out through memes. These are also images that people create for one day and then they seem to disappear. These announcements show the multiplicity of sectors within our society here and outside the island who participated either as individuals or as organizations. Compiling these digital elements help us reflect on the multiple communities that were part of all the events that took place last summer. Even though it’s said that it was one voice, the reality is that many diverse entities joined on to the protest. And that is of great historical value, to recognize the diversity in the individuals, organizations, and communities that took to the streets.

(MR) Dance and music were used as a tool of resistance and protest. Those moments are also ephemeral, spontaneous, and truly the only evidence that they in fact took place is the video footage that people uploaded on social media. Another good example are the “cacerolazos”. It’s really interesting how people, for example, in New York City would take out their pots and record videos of themselves to be in solidarity with the people in Puerto Rico. There is an element of performance in this type of protest that most often is not captured by the media. That is why we want to call on people to donate their digital artifacts; to truly represent the diversity in voices that would have never joined had it not been for the leaked chats.

(JBR) We also compiled newspapers from other countries. And in the same case as the posters, they only show a fraction of the people who were actually present at the protests. It’s important to reiterate that the RickyRenuncia archive is not meant to be the absolute and sole archive of these protests, which is why we want to emphasize the concept of representation and recognize the limitations, silences, and gaps of the archive.

(AE) The collection will form part of the Internet Archive’s Spontaneous Event Collections. How do you define the word “spontaneous” in this particular context? Do you consider this to be a spontaneous event?

(MR) It’s a conversation that we have had since the beginning of this process. First there is the fact that it’s the word that the Internet Archive uses to describe events like the Black Lives Matter movement and the Arab Spring. The word “spontaneous” is disputed and honestly I am not quite not sure it ‘s the correct one. There are moments that yes, are spontaneous. Like putting a call to action on Facebook or Twitter and it’s at that point that suddenly everyone shows up. What is not spontaneous are the organizations that not only came together last summer but have been protesting for many years, since La Junta [PROMESA], since Hurricane Maria, and since the many other disasters that took place beforehand. It’s spontaneous only in the sense that a sole group did not actually organize everything in advance. There is a difference between that and all the grassroot organizations that had already been organizing and used the chat to galvanize and bring attention to what has been going on in the country for years. That is why it’s a historical event, it surpassed past massive protests such as those around Vieques, la Telefónica, or the workers’ strikes. Those were events that had specific roots within an issue but the leaked chats cut across ideologies and groups because we can all say that we’ve lost someone before or after María due to a lack of response or accountability by the Puerto Rican and United States government. Any human being sees dead people being made fun of…and that will serve as a catalyst.

(JBR) That is a good question for the Internet Archive. But yes, totally in agreement. It ‘s important to make note that this was not only about everyone getting angry about a leaked chat. The chat was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

(MR) Spontaneity also comes from the fact that our project initially comes about from a Facebook post. We as humans have this impulse to organize information and a way to do it is by cataloguing and tagging. Perhaps we should consider another label more appropriate for these types of events.

(IFR) To a certain degree, I had thought about it as the act of us three coming together that week to meet and document as a team. First it was Marisol’s post, then my idea of gathering posters while at the protests on the highway as it rained. I think that also reflects the spontaneous nature of this project. It was also spontaneous how the rest of the programmers and designers joined the team. So perhaps the word spontaneous refers more to us as a team rather than the actual event itself. We were just awarded an IMLS grant and that was quite spontaneous as well.

(MR) Just like the person who takes a photograph which then suddenly becomes viral. The spontaneous is the connection that we are forming through technology that twenty years ago was not available. We no longer are in the realm of professional photographers who are the only ones capable of taking a good photo. Now we are all citizens with the same ability to document, to archive, and to demand justice. It is on us to preserve our own histories, we cannot depend on institutions. If these collections are not part of their collecting mission, especially in the case of minority and marginalized communities, we simply don’t exist. Sometimes it is best to collect records and from there search for the institution or organization that not only has the necessary resources but that truly cares and understands where you are coming from. We are trying to facilitate this. Serving as intermediaries is a way to carry on the archival activism to which we are committed.

Click here to read the second part of the interview.

Featured image: Most popular hashtags, extracted using TWARC.

Interview by Cristina Fontánez Rodríguez, Yvette Ramírez and Caroline Gil.

Here at Archivoz, we had the honor of interviewing Raffaella Vincenti, who since 2016 has filled the post of Office Head at the Vatican Apostolic Library, a posting officially recognized by Pope Francis in June 2020. Raffaella’s has been a brilliant career, from a Bachelor’s degree in the history of Italian (under Luca Serianni) from the Sapienza University in Rome, to Sapienza’s Special School for Archivists and Librarians (Scuola Speciale Archivisti e Bibliotecari), where she graduated with a thesis on information technologies for archives and libraries. She was the first woman appointed to the Vatican’s Library Council, and since 2010, she has taught Bibliography and Reference Service at the Vatican School of Library Science. Because of the attention her official recognition has received, we believe that the opportunity to learn more about an influential member of the library sciences profession will be of great interest to our readers.

(Archivoz) Thank you very much, Doctor Vincenti, for speaking with us. On June 12, 2020, the Vatican released a statement that read: “Pope Francis appointed Dr. Raffaella Vincenti as office head of the Vatican Apostolic Library. Dr. Vincenti had previously served as secretary of the Library.” The news was picked up immediately in the media as a clear signal, preceded by others—such as that offered by the Holy Father in a Mass celebrated on January 1, 2020—indicating the need to involve women more directly in the Church’s decision-making processes.

(Raffaella Vincenti) I must confess that the news has been somewhat exaggerated in the media, since this is really just confirmation of a role assigned to me by Cardinal Parolin in 2016. Several press agencies have perhaps emphasized my nomination because of the simultaneous, and more relevant, addition of Antonella Sciarrone Alibrandi to the managing board of the Vatican’s Financial Information Authority.

Of course, I’m very grateful to the Holy Father for his official recognition of the appointment; Pope Francis is very aware of the work performed by women in the Holy See. However, it is important to remember that those who originally appointed me to Manager of the Department of Acquisitions (in 2007) and then to the post of General Secretary (in 2012) were two Prefects of the Vatican Library, Raffaele Farina (now Cardinal Farina) and the current prefect, Cesare Pasini. This all took place before the appointment of Cardinal Parolin. They, as well as Father Leonard Boyle, Prefect of the Library from 1984 to 1997, who gave me my first job at the Vatican, chose personnel based on ability without reference to gender. It is true that the Library is an organization characterized by a strong female professional presence, but this is also the case in other Vatican institutions.

(Archivoz) How has your career within the Vatican network developed, and what are your actual work responsibilities as General Secretary of the Vatican Apostolic Library?

(RV) As I mentioned before, it was Prefect Farina (later Cardinal Librarian and Archivist of the Holy Roman Church, from 2007-2012) who in 2007 originally appointed me Head of the Aqcuisitions Department, in charge of acquisition of print materials. My academic background is in the humanities, with a Bachelor’s degree in History of the Italian Language, and a further degree from the Special School for Archivists and Librarians (Scuola Speciale Archivisti e Bibliotecari) at the Sapienza in Rome. I completed my training with degrees in Greek paleography and archival sciences and library science from the Vatican’s School of Library Science.

From a professional point of view, and considering my academic background, my interests have always tended toward library and archival work. Following an initial work experience at the Vatican, in the early ‘90s, I had the opportunity to work in a variety of academic settings (British School at Rome, Ecole Française de Rome, Pontificia Università Lateranense, rete URBS – Unione Romana Biblioteche Scientifiche) and in the archives of various Italian institutions, such as RAI, ISTAT, and the Banca di Roma).

Upon returning to the Vatican, and after a few years as head of the Acquisitions Department, Prefect Monsignor Pasini promoted me to Head of Office of the Secretariat in 2012, a post which involves coordination of a variety of activities primarily with the Prefecture. Among these are: general management of the respective secretariats of the Prefecture, Vice-Prefecture and Cardinal’s Office, besides the Department of Admissions, which liaises with researchers and supervises access to the reading rooms; personnel management; direction of work related to the Reproductions and Rights Office; and coordination of activities related to institutional communications, including management of social media accounts (both in Italian and English) and oversight of content published on the Library’s web site.

(Archivoz) What do you personally think about Pope Francis’ openness to the appointment of women to posts traditionally restricted to men?

(RV) In my opinion, this is a much broader question that speaks to professional competencies and knowledge over and above considerations of gender. I’m happy that women are being considered for positions of authority that have traditionally been reserved for men, but we will only be able to celebrate this as a real accomplishment when these announcements are no longer seen as exceptional or out of the ordinary. Only then will it be possible to set aside discussions of gender equality in favor of professional ability more broadly conceived. The Holy Father speaks frequently of the female “genius,” listing the characteristics which make women deserving of more attention and higher levels of professional responsibilities in the workplace, but in the Library, perhaps due to the strong cultural connotations that in many ways set it apart from other Vatican institutions, this balance was already a reality during the pontificate of Benedict XVI, who appointed many of my female colleagues to the high positions they currently occupy. An example of this would be Barbara Jatta, Director of the Vatican Museums.

Actually, it has been case now for a while that women occupy many positions of authority in the Library, with a level of accomplishment such that their work has served to enrich both the organization’s institutional life and its complex of procedures and relations, which in the end translates into better service to our patrons. As an example that focuses a bit on Spanish-speaking countries, I might—with a deal of pride—mention my colleague (and friend) Ángela Nuñez Gaitán, director of the Library’s Preservation Laboratory. She has inherited, from earlier generations of preservation staff, an important mixture of experience and hands-on knowledge, which she has been able to combine flawlessly with her own knowledge of modern preservation theory and, above all, of the technologies that foster an evolution of departmental practice that protects and preserves our materials while at the same time maintaining a healthy respect for their profoundly historical nature.

(Archivoz) In recent years, the Vatican Library has placed great emphasis on digitization of its manuscript holdings. Are there any related projects planned for the near future?

(RV) We are, at the moment, very focused on the process of digitization itself. However, we have at the same time begun work on a series of related “micro-projects” which have allowed to broaden a bit the horizons of the larger project. For example, as part of the digital reproduction process we have taken on other embedded tasks such as metadata enhancement and, thanks to interoperability standards like IIIF (International Image Interoperability Framework), efforts to enhance effectiveness of collaborative research. We are also exploring more adequate visual optimization technologies, in order to ensure greater detail than can be captured by the naked eye, as well as methodologies for handling extremely delicate materials. Furthermore, we are exploring new formats for long-term conservation of digital materials—like FITS (Flexible Image Transport System )—as part of an ongoing movement toward standardization in the field of cultural heritage. A number of internationally known academic institutions are also working on these initiatives, as pilot programs, that may be applicable to our research needs in the near future.

(Archivoz) How has the Vatican Library been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic? It is one of the first institutions in the world to reopen its collections to researchers, with of course all due attention to security and health considerations. What do you think of this gesture, which has been so well received by the scientific community?

(RV) At first, we made an effort to move all ordinary workflows to a telecommuting context, which hasn’t always been easy, but thanks to cooperation between our departments we were able to ensure that work that could no be postponed or delayed could be carried out remotely. Later on, once the emergency began to susbside, we were able to formulate a procedure for reopening the Library, with attention to all security and health safeguards, and return to our normal activities. At the same time, we carried out a survey of our spaces in order to evaluate possible risks and limitations, all with the help of an internal health audit that has generated a list of guidelines to follow.

Once we determined that we could safely return to normal functioning while respecting social distancing and health guidelines, and thus afford our researchers to complete their academic year as planned, we reopened our reading rooms to the public. All this required great determination, but we have been rewarded with the gratitude of our patrons, which is, of course, the goal of everything we do.

(Archivoz) What is the profile of the average user of the Library’s collections? What guidelines do you follow regarding acquisitions of new material?

(RV) The majority of our researchers are academics or specialists in the humanities. According to the wishes of those who, from Nicholas V forward, have succeeded to headship of the Church, we are open to all, regardless of race, religion, or political inclinations. Still, we safeguard a particularly delicate and rich heritage which it is our duty to pass down intact to future generations, so access to our collections is curated according to the objectives and specialization of the projects in question. This is the ultimate determinant of who does and does not receive an access card. Naturally, we all also give access to students who have either recently completed or are completing a degree program, as long as they are able to demonstrate the relevance to their studies of the materials requested. As a general rule, we try to balance the twin missions of access and preservation, so we encourage researchers to consult digital copies first, and then, if deemed necessary, to request access to the original (assuming, of course, that the original is in a condition that permits consultation).

Our manuscript collection, along with special materials like prints, photographs, and numismatic artifacts, are historical collections which, with the exception of donations or special purchases, do not receive new accessions. Conversely, our print collection (along with the corresponding digital materials) are open to new acquisitions and constitute the main thrust of the academic activity hosted by our institution. Therefore, there is a department dedicated especially to this work (of which I was the manager from 2007 to 2012). It is part of the larger Printed Books Department, and is responsible for the acquisition of new materials through purchase, donation, or exchange. Inclusion is based on the relationship of a given item to the disciplines represented within our collections; there are subject experts on staff who advise the department manager as to the selection of new titles. This is often done in cooperation with major vendors, who prepare customized catalogs of available titles aimed at particular libraries in order to streamline the selection process.

(Archivoz) In conclusión, can you share with us some of the projects you plan to undertake at the Library in the near future?

(RV) I’ve already mentioned the smaller side projects being undertaken alongside our digitization work, which will probably determine the focus of our ongoing research and development interests. I would add that each initiative requires a constant fundraising effort in order to cover future budgetary needs; our collaborators, not to mention our research and implementation activities, require funding that guarantees more than just the immediate future. This task falls to the Department of Marketing and Development, the manager of which is also a woman. The Prefecture guides its work, providing a point of contact between that office and the Library’s state of affairs so that it can support our financial needs, in a spirit of justice and openness.

Interview conducted by: Marta Pavón Ramírez y Víctor Villapalos

Interview with Mohammed Jasim, former Director of Mosul University Library, and coordinator of the international support for Mosul University Library. Mohammed will give an insight into the current situation at Mosul University Library, and the national and international drive to restore it. Mohammed coordinates these efforts, working with local and international institutions to increase support for the library and build new collections. He liaises with officials in Mosul over the planning and eventual reconstruction of the library.

Archivoz’s Noemi spoke with Mohammed to lean about Musul University Library and the work of reconstructing the Library.

(Archivoz) We would like to know a little bit about you – could you give us an introduction to yourself?

(Mohammed) My name is Mohammed Jasim Aal-Hajiahmed, I am the former director of Mosul University Library and the coordinator of international support for the Library since the destruction and burning caused by ISIS during their occupation of Mosul, in northern Iraq.

(Archivoz) Could you explore Mosul University and its Library, to help us understand its pivotal role for the universities and libraries in Iraq, both before and after the ISIS attack?

(Mohammed) Mosul University is the second university in Iraq after the University of Baghdad. It has 55,000 students with 125 departments across sciences and humanities, 25 colleges and 8 research centers. Built in 1967, the Mosul University Library was one of the largest in Iraq and one of the most important in the Middle East. The place once housed more than one million books – 600,000 Arabic-language materials and 400,000 resources in English and other languages, covering diverse fields of knowledge, as well as 30,000 periodicals, in some cases dating back to 1700 CE. The Library contained 1600 manuscripts, 5000 governmental publications from as far back as the founding of the modern Iraqi state in 1921, and versions of the Holy Qur’an from the 18th century. The Library also had 10,000 reference books. Foreign culture corners gave students and researchers the chance to explore diverse literary traditions and faraway lands.

(Archivoz) After the ISIS attack on 6 June 2014, what happened to the University and the Library? Which books and manuscripts were destroyed and how were they damaged?

(Mohammed) As a house of learning and knowledge at the center of the University, the Library was among the first institutions targeted by ISIS after their occupation of Mosul in 2014. They would later burn it completely, destroying nearly all of its contents and the building’s structure, leaving some 55,000 students and about 11,000 staff, as well as independent researchers from Mosul, nearby cities, and other parts of Iraq without the resources needed to complete their academic projects.

(Archivoz) How did the people react in Mosul? How did people, after the attack, try to save parts of the Library?

(Mohammed) Once the University was liberated by the Iraqi forces, a group of people, young and old, rushed to the Library. While the battle was still continuing on the other side of the city, they were able to save and recover thousands of books from the holes made by the missile attacks. From this, we can imagine the Library’s importance, not only for the students but for the people of Mosul as well.

(Archivoz) How did the rest of the world react? Did Mosul have support? What form did this help take? Were there harmful as well as beneficial aspects?

(Mohammed) After the liberation, we sent an appeal letter to international institutions, universities, and libraries, with help from Angela Boskovitch, asking them to support Mosul University Library as we believe that Iraq has fought on behalf of the international community and now it is time for the international community to help us in rebuilding the University and the Library as well.

We received urgent materials from the Prince Claus Fund in Amsterdam, and other library materials from Charles University in the Czech Republic. We also received books from local and international institutions and universities and even from individuals who wanted to help Mosul University Library. We started sending these books to the relevant colleges and departments. We appreciate all these efforts, however sometimes we receive donations of books that we do not need, or even old materials which burden us and make our task harder as we do not have enough space to store them. We have a good agreement with Book Aid International: they provide us with materials according to exactly what we need, and we have received about 8000 books through that agreement so far.

(Archivoz) How has the University handled the situation? What decisions have been taken since the destruction? What have been the first priorities?

(Mohammed) After the liberation, the University reopened although about 70% of the buildings had been destroyed. Some colleges were destroyed completely, like the Library. At first, the efforts focused on fixing classrooms for the students joining the University and enrolling to study, although the University had never closed as it was running out of the Kurdistan region for those students who were outside the city. The staff and students were working all together to repair and paint the classrooms, using their own funds. After that the UNDP started to restore the buildings, and there was government support to rebuild college buildings. The Library has recently bid for funding and the building will be restored by UNDP.

(Archivoz) How has this event affected students and staff, since the destruction was not just of books or manuscripts, but also of all the infrastructure and physical objects that are needed on a day to day basis.

(Mohammed) It was really hard to start from scratch; the scene was horrible especially when most parts of the city had been leveled to the ground, the University had been destroyed, and the Library burned and bombed. It was a nightmare for us – nobody can imagine that. We started when we didn’t even have chairs to sit in. In the Library we have 135 staff, but they had no place to start working as everything had been destroyed. The students started to come to the University in shifts, as there were not enough classrooms for them. It is really hard to describe that situation, but the good thing is that everybody was committed to make a change, from the students who insisted on coming to the University and resuming their studying, to all staff who were displaced and were commuting to Mosul University every day from Kurdistan. So there is a will to change and start again in spite of the challenges we have all faced.

(Archivoz) Nowadays, how is it working at the University and Library?

(Mohammed) Right now, the University is running properly. It has 55,000 students with fully functioning institutions. The University has resumed its academic activities like conferences, workshops, lectures, and other scientific events. It has entered a new era after appointing a new president, Prof. Qusay Al-Ahmadi, who started involving the University in Mosul’s social activities. We can now see the University is giving consultancy to other city sectors helping them to flourish again.

Unfortunately, the Library is still running from a substitute site waiting for the restoration of the building because we cannot fully function unless there is a building to house computers and other library departments.

(Archivoz) Mohammed, you coordinate the reconstruction of the Library. How is it working with local and international institutions to increase support for the Library and build new collections? Could you explore how you are doing this work?

(Mohammed) As I mentioned earlier, after the liberation I started sending appeal letters describing the situation to the international community. I managed to get urgent materials for the Library like computers, staff chairs, desks, etc. through the Prince Claus Fund in Amsterdam and from Charles University, and we are grateful to the People in Need NGO for their help in making that happen. In 2018 I also visited the UK and met with people from Book Aid International to outline the agreement of getting books from them based on exactly what we need, and we thank Book Bridge Institution for their coordination. I also met with the director of the Bodleian Library in Oxford, which meant we were able to connect Mosul University with Oxford University Press to get access to some of their e-materials; we owe thanks to the Iraq Britain Business Council for their coordination in making that happen. I also gave a talk at the UNESCO conference held in Paris in September 2018 under UNESCO’s “Revive the Spirit of Mosul” initiative. I addressed international donors attending the conference on the issue of the Library. I should also thank all the local Iraqi universities which donated books to us from the very beginning of the liberation, and universities like Plymouth and Manchester for donating books, as well as the Iraqi and American Reconciliation Project for their efforts in collecting books from different place within the US. Many thanks to Mosul Eye Institution for their efforts in supporting the Library and connecting us with many international institutions and thanks to all the individuals and groups whose names I have not been able to mention for their support.

(Archivoz) What’s next? What are the priorities? Digitalisation plans? Donations?  Electronic resources?

(Mohammed) Our priority now is to get the University back to the international status it held before. For the Library, we are focusing on getting e-resources as it is the best and easiest way to help our students and get them access to up to date materials. This is no easy task as it costs so much money but we are doing our best to make it happen. We are also looking for partnerships with international libraries like the British Library, which is one of the leading cultural institutions in the world. Once we have the building, we can start setting up plans for digitization as we believe that if we had digitized our materials the disaster would not have been quite like this. Digitization and training our staff are among our priorities. We are receiving donations of books but again we would like to coordinate with the donors to select what is needed rather than sending us unwanted materials.

(Archivoz) If possible, could you explore your personal experience of this event?

(Mohammed) I am now doing my PhD at UAB in Spain, but I am still committed to coordinating the international support for Mosul University Library as it is my second home. I spent about 18 years working in the Library; each corner represents something for me. Therefore, all the Library staff and I are committed to making the Library function again and rebuilding our collections to be even better than before.